[LPL Board of Directors] Cancellation of Tomorrow's Board
Daniel Hayes
sccrep at jefferson.lplouisiana.org
Sat Apr 13 08:47:30 CDT 2013
6. A State Central Committee member who fails to attend two consecutive
regular meetings of the State Central Committee shall be deemed to have
vacated his or her seat.
This is the legal regular meeting today. If your advice is followed,
we will be one more officer down as Mr Boyd Smith was not in attendance
at the Shreveport meeting.
I quote from your own posting of RONR, "...the inability to transact
business does not detract from the fact that the society's rules
requiring the meeting to be held were complied with and the meeting was
convened-even though it had to adjourn immediately." Pay particular
attention to the part of the passage that says "the society's rules
requiring the meeting to be held"
We are legally REQUIRED to meet EVEN if on
You ask the SCC be given due time to find a replacement, however Mr
Ebarb's departure was not a surprise. He announced that a month ago. His
departure only moved up a day. Since taking action to obtain a quorum IS
authorized business..we can at the very least discuss that going
forward.. Look forward to see you T Lee.
Daniel Hayes
On 2013-04-13 06:48, T Lee Horne III wrote:
> I apologize, I see my initial reply went out through my personal
> email
> rather than the party system. I am repeating the earlier email
> through the
> official system.
>
> T Lee Horne, III
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: T Lee Horne III [mailto:tlhorne at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2013 7:27 AM
> To: 'Mailing list for LPL Board of Directors'
> Subject: RE: [LPL Board of Directors] Cancellation of Tomorrow's
> Board
>
> RONR (11th ed.), p. 347, ll. 21-35, p. 348, ll. 1-23
>
> "PROCEEDINGS IN THE ABSENCE OF A QUORUM.
> In the absence of a quorum, any business transacted (except for the
> procedural actions noted in the next paragraph) is null and void. But
> if a
> quorum fails to appear at a regularly or properly called meeting, the
> inability to transact business does not detract from the fact that
> the
> society's rules requiring the meeting to be held were complied with
> and the
> meeting was convened-even though it had to adjourn immediately.
>
> Even in the absence of a quorum, the assembly may fix the time to
> which to
> adjourn (22), adjourn (21), recess (20), or take measures to obtain a
> quorum..."
> ________________________________________
>
>
> At best, members can meet without a quorum, at the time and place
> designated
> for a regular meeting, and they have four choices - none of which
> will
> magically produce a quorum, or create a legal meeting in the absence
> of one.
>
> The choices are:
>
> #1 - take measures to obtain a quorum - members could attempt to
> contact the
> absent members and request their attendance, but that is impossible
> since
> there is no duly elected or appointed Secretary.
>
> #2 - recess - take a break, hoping to allow time for a quorum to
> form, but
> in the immediate case, that is impossible since there is no duly
> elected or
> appointed Secretary.
>
> #3 - adjourn - that is, leave without doing anything. This happened
> last
> July when the quorum requirement was not met. The chair called the
> meeting
> to order, recognized the absence of a quorum and promptly adjourned
> the
> meeting. We met informally afterwards, but no official actions were
> taken.
>
> #4 - fix the time to which to adjourn - this is where the members can
> set a
> new date, time, and/or place to "move" or "reschedule" the meeting
> to. This
> rescheduled meeting does not constitute an entirely new meeting, but
> is a
> continuation of the previous one. (in this case, the one that did
> nothing
> but reschedule)
>
> In this immediate case, this attempt is useless. All it can do, is
> establish
> another time, date and place for people to waste time gathering and
> not know
> if there is going to be a quorum.
>
> If you "adjourn to the same place and time, two weeks from April
> 13th" for
> example, all you are going to do is create another session of that
> meeting
> of April 13th. You still need a quorum on that new date to actually
> hold a
> meeting and transact business. There is NOTHING else you can do and
> there
> is no way around it.
>
> No quorum - no business, adjourned meeting or not.
>
> In short, an adjourned meeting with no quorum, is right back where
> you
> started with only the same four choices.
>
> This is useless and makes no sense.
>
> The party is in a precarious and fragile state. Two executive
> officers are
> missing, and one supporting officer.
>
> The chair has asked for time to properly consider qualified
> candidates to
> appoint as replacements per the Bylaws.
>
> Until a Secretary can be appointed, and confirmed by the Board (via
> postal
> mail ballot since a quorum is not possible otherwise) there can be no
> legal
> meeting, adjourned or not.
>
> It serves no purpose to "fix the time to which to adjourn" if you
> have no
> idea when that appointment will be made and approved.
>
> Prudence would dictate here that the Board give the Chair due time to
> find a
> suitable Secretary so it can get on with its business.
>
> If you want to ensure a regular 2nd Quarter meeting is held, and you
> really
> want to create an "adjourned meeting" then the most sensible thing to
> do, is
> word the motion to create such a meeting as "adjourn to a time and
> place
> specified by the Chairman." This will allow the Bylaws to be
> fulfilled for
> the purpose of having the 2nd quarter meeting at the time and place
> as set
> by resolution, and to give the Chair the discretion and time he needs
> to
> fill the vacant office without haste or rash judgment forced upon him
> by
> impertinent and impatient members.
>
> There is no emergency here. There is not even a need to create an
> adjourned
> meeting. The chair has indicated the meeting in question will be
> rescheduled. (which is all the motion to "fix the time to which to
> adjourn"
> will do in the absence of a quorum) And he will naturally reschedule
> this
> meeting ONCE he has appointed a new Secretary and the Board has
> approved the
> appointment. It is utterly useless to schedule a meeting by any
> means, via
> adjourned meeting, or call of the chair, or otherwise if it is not
> known if
> a quorum is even possible, and especially in the absence of a
> Secretary, it
> is thus known to be IMPOSSIBLE.
>
> In short, chill out. Offer suggestions to the Chair for Secretary.
> Volunteer for the position yourself. This is not life or death, the
> party
> goes on, and it will get through this in a reasonable time frame. It
> is not
> the first time something similar has happened and not likely the
> last.
> Waste time tomorrow if you want to rescheduling without any
> information to
> base that new session on, but there clearly is no point to doing so.
> ________________________________________
> Finally, "Robert's Rules of Order for Dummies" has no bearing on, and
> is
> NOT, the parliamentary authority for the LPL.
>
> ONLY "Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised 11th Edition" is the
> authority
> that can be cited or referred to.
>
>
>
> T Lee Horne, III
> Organizer of NAACP Unit 6080, Saint Joseph, LA President of Brumby
> Enterprises, Inc. 800-746-1705 Former Chairman of Libertarian Party
> of
> Louisiana 2009-2012 Former Candidate for Governor of Louisiana ran a
> 4 year
> campaign 2003-2007
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: scc-bounces at lplouisiana.org
> [mailto:scc-bounces at lplouisiana.org] On
> Behalf Of Daniel Hayes
> Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2013 3:34 AM
> To: scc at lplouisiana.org
> Subject: Re: [LPL Board of Directors] Cancellation of Tomorrow's
> Board
>
> T Lee.. I refer people to section 40 I listed in my prior Email..The
> meeting
> tomorrow IS the LEGALLY set regular meeting. You can think what you
> want..everyone should attend.
>
> WHILE we may not be able to conduct business other than what I
> stated.
> As the meeting has been called..we MUST hold the meeting. You can
> argue what
> you want..but I have the phone to my ear with a professional
> parlimentarian
> at 2:30 AM and I am reading him back everything I am typing and he
> has
> confirmed all of it. See you tomorrow.
>
> Daniel Hayes
> Jefferson Parish Representative to the LSCC
>
>
>
>
> On 2013-04-13 01:53, T Lee Horne III wrote:
>> Anyone can meet at any time and the party by-laws are specific,
>> regardless of the number of people attending if there is no
>> Secretary
>> there is no Quorum.
>>
>> Any attempt to conduct ANY business without the Secretary and either
>> the Chair or Vice-Chair preset tomorrow will constitute an illegal
>> meeting, and any action taken will have no weight or bearing upon
>> the
>> party. If any attempt is made to hold such a meeting and act without
>> a
>> quorum all such motions or votes or decisions taken therein are
>> without effect and void. We will reschedule this meeting, but do not
>> attempt to hold one illegally. Of course, anyone is free to gather
>> informally, and without attempting to take any official action. Any
>> meeting held tomorrow without an official quorum is not and cannot
>> be
>> an "adjourned meeting."
>>
>>
>> T Lee Horne, III
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: scc-bounces at lplouisiana.org
>> [mailto:scc-bounces at lplouisiana.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Hayes
>> Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2013 2:46 AM
>> To: scc at lplouisiana.org
>> Subject: Re: [LPL Board of Directors] Cancellation of Tomorrow's
>> Board
>> Meeting
>>
>> We will meet...you can choose to be there..or stay home. No matter
>> what...the Chair does not have authority to cancel the regularly
>> scheduled and called meeting. THIS is not an adjourned meeting. It
>> is
>> a regularly called meeting.
>>
>> from the 11th edition of Robert's Rules of order..RONR 11th ed
>> Section
>> 40, page 347, "..... even in the absence of a quorum, the assembly
>> may
>> fix the time to which to adjorn, adjourn, or take measures to obtain
>> a
>> quorum....."
>> The motion to fix the time to which to adjourn is the legal act by
>> which an assembly sets an adjourned meeting...quorum or no quorum.
>> Utterly proper and legal in cases where no quorum is present. THIS
>> is
>> the legal meeting tomorrow.
>>
>> In a phone conference together..Richard Brown the parlimentarian
>> that
>> will be present tomorrow, along with C.Allen Jennings author of
>> Roberts Rules for Dummies agreed that what I have stated above IS
>> the
>> proper course of action.
>> also see Robert's Rules for Dummies, Page 52. 1st edition "Dealing
>> with an absence of a quorum"
>>
>>
>> Daniel Hayes
>> Jefferson Parish Representative to the LSCC.
>>
>> On 2013-04-13 00:34, T Lee Horne III wrote:
>>> RONR (11th ed.), p.93, ll.25-35,p. 94, ll. 1-4"An adjourned meeting
>>> is a meeting in continuation of the session of the immediately
>>> preceding regular meeting or special meeting.
>>>
>>> The name adjourned meeting means that the meeting is scheduled for
>>> a
>>> particular time (and place, if it is not otherwise established) by
>>> the assembly's "adjourning to" or "adjourning until" that time and
>>> place.
>>> If a regular meeting or a special meeting is unable to complete its
>>> work, an adjourned meeting can be scheduled for later the same day
>>> or
>>> some other convenient time before the next regular meeting by the
>>> adoption (as applicable) of a main or privileged motion to fix the
>>> time to which to adjourn, or a main motion to adjourn until a
>>> specified time (see 21, 22). In such a case, the adjourned meeting
>>> is
>>> sometimes spoken of as the "adjournment of" the regular or special
>>> meeting. This usage should not be confused with the act of
>>> adjourning."It is clear from Robert's Rules here that an "adjourned
>>> meeting" is something that is established by act of the Board while
>>> still in a session that has or is presumed to have a quorum when it
>>> can't get to everything on its agenda, in effect, it is a way to
>>> continue a meeting, with the presumption of a quorum existing, to
>>> another time and or place. It does NOT mean a meeting can be held
>>> without a quorum. It is not another name for an attempt to hold a
>>> meeting without a quorum. No official action can take place without
>>> a
>>> quorum no matter what you call the meeting.
>>>
>>> The last meeting in Shreveport did NOT "adjourn until April 13th in
>>> the city of New Orleans" and therefore did not create an adjourned
>>> meeting. An adjourned meeting, as stated, can only be created by a
>>> motion, in a session with a quorum to continue the meeting it is
>>> made
>>> in at another time and or place. The meeting in Shreveport
>>> adjourned
>>> -
>>> ended, without qualification.
>>>
>>> Any attempt to conduct ANY business without the Secretary and
>>> either
>>> the Chair or Vice-Chair preset tomorrow will constitute an illegal
>>> meeting, and any action taken will have no weight or bearing upon
>>> the
>>> party. If any attempt is made to hold such a meeting and act
>>> without
>>> a quorum all such motions or votes or decisions taken therein are
>>> without effect and void. We will reschedule this meeting, but do
>>> not
>>> attempt to hold one illegally. Of course, anyone is free to gather
>>> informally, and without attempting to take any official action. Any
>>> meeting held tomorrow without an official quorum is not and cannot
>>> be
>>> an "adjourned meeting."
>>>
>>> Any attempt to conduct ANY business without the Secretary and
>>> either
>>> the Chair or Vice-Chair preset tomorrow will constitute an illegal
>>> meeting, and any action taken will have no weight or bearing upon
>>> the
>>> party. If any attempt is made to hold such a meeting and act
>>> without
>>> a quorum all such motions or votes or decisions taken therein are
>>> without effect and void. We will reschedule this meeting, but do
>>> not
>>> attempt to hold one illegally. Of course, anyone is free to gather
>>> informally, and without attempting to take any official action. Any
>>> meeting held tomorrow without an official quorum is not and cannot
>>> be
>>> an "adjourned meeting."
>>>
>>> T LEE HORNE, III
>>>
>>> Organizer of NAACP Unit 6080, Saint Joseph, LA
>>>
>>> President of Brumby Enterprises, Inc. 800-746-1705
>>>
>>> Former Chairman of Libertarian Party of Louisiana 2009-2012
>>>
>>> Former Candidate for Governor of Louisiana ran a 4 year campaign
>>> 2003-2007
>>>
>>> tleehorneiii at gmail.com
>>>
>>> 318-542-4445 google voice
>>>
>>> tleehorneiii skype
>>>
>>> HTTP://BIT.LY/12ZAQMS [1]
>>>
>>> FROM: scc-bounces at lplouisiana.org
>>> [mailto:scc-bounces at lplouisiana.org] ON BEHALF OF Adrien Monteleone
>>> SENT: Friday, April 12, 2013 4:47 PM
>>> TO: Mailing list for LPL Board of Directors
>>> SUBJECT: [LPL Board of Directors] Cancellation of Tomorrow's Board
>>> Meeting
>>>
>>> To all Board Members,
>>>
>>> Due to the resignation of our Secretary, we will not be able to
>>> have
>>> a quorum for tomorrow's meeting.
>>>
>>> I will endeavor to find a replacement Secretary as soon as
>>> possible,
>>> but do not think it wise to rush such an appointment on short
>>> notice,
>>> especially considering the recent opposition to email voting
>>> necessary for confirmation. I also do not want to engage in office
>>> shuffling just to meet the quorum and then have to reshuffle again
>>> later.
>>>
>>> Therefore, I am cancelling this meeting.
>>>
>>> It may be rescheduled for a later date, depending on the timeliness
>>> of being able to find a Secretary for the Party to fulfill the
>>> remainder of the term until 2016.
>>>
>>> My apologies to all, as I looked forward to meeting some of you in
>>> person for a full session for the first time.
>>>
>>> If you know of any guests who had intended to be there, please
>>> inform
>>> them immediately so they can adjust their plans.
>>>
>>> I will be removing the meeting announcement on the website, on the
>>> Meetup site, and posting an announcement of the cancellation.
>>>
>>> -- In Liberty, Adrien Monteleone - Chairman Libertarian Party of
>>> Louisiana
>>>
>>> This message has been processed by Firetrust Benign [2].
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1] http://bit.ly/12zAQMS
>>> [2] http://www.firetrust.com/products/benign/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SCC mailing list
>>> SCC at lplouisiana.org
>>> http://lplouisiana.org/mailman/listinfo/scc_lplouisiana.org
>>
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>
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